THE CAGE

Abortion

has nothing



to do


AT ALL




with this conversation.

1/4 pregnancies end in miscarriage. Often times a d&c needs to happen. With these abortion bans, there is risk that d&c can’t happen and women will die of infection. In fact, this is already happening. But I guess that doesn’t matter as Rs think that women are second class citizens and some of them even think they should repeal the 19th amendment.

I'll jump into this because I have anecdotal evidence. One of my wife's friends had to have a d&c and it went awry. Recovery was much longer than anticipated. Things can go awry both ways--woman can keep the child and have to terminate it due to the pregnancy not being viable. A termination of a pregnancy can go wrong. 

But keep making this all about abortion and women's rights and ignore all the other issues that are relevant to both men and women--the economy, unchecked regulation, education, infrastructure. I can go on.

Well that is not as skewed as I would have thought and I will trust you without a source, in part because I have yet to receive word on what sources can be trusted, someday maybe.... 

I'd counter with 2 things, 1: curious how much the Israel vs. Hamas/Hezbollah has to do with it; 2: That 35 for Rs has 1/100000th the impact on what Rs in power are doing vs. Ds


 




My SIL had to have a D&C just over 2 years ago for a fetus who died in the womb.  I'm not saying the procedure can't go wrong.  Mags claims they're banned and women have already died of infection because of that which is a separate thing entirely from women can have D&Cs but there can be complications during/after.

If there are laws that intentionally prevent women from receiving medically necessary care in the event of a misarriage, I am 100% opposed to that.  These are not abortions, and no rational person believes they are.  Every state that has an abortion ban has exceptions for life/health of the mother.  There is unquestionably an issue of clarity within these laws, leading to both patients and providers being unsure of whether the care is medically necessary.  I can also accept that there's some risk associated with not having access to the medicines and equipment needed for D&C, because they're the same ones used for abortions.  These are bad side effects of bans that I do not believe are inherently bad in their intent.

What I don't accept is that this just means, "Republicans think women are second class citizens and don't care if they die because of a miscarriage."  Some of the laws are poorly written, which results in the issues I mentioned above.  These are relatively new laws, and I would absolutely love to see people take an honest look at the real problems being created as a result of that.  Clarify what the exceptions actually mean, train doctors to do D&Cs because they are always going to be necessary for procedures that aren't abortions, educate the people so they aren't afraid to get care they really do need, etc.  But if you think people are actually writing laws with the intention of making women suffer because they're horrible monsters who think you should be your husband's property, then I don't really know what to say.

Is discussion here being limited to just America, because...........................................

I can't be bothered to look up what SD's laws actually are, but that might not be true.